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Thread: Yue = Viet

  1. #21
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              Ethnicity:   Kinh
    Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam

    Haplogroup O3a1c-JST002611 was first identified in 3.8% (10/263) of a sample of Japanese (Nonaka et al. 2007). Subsequently, this haplogroup has been found with higher frequency in some samples taken in and around China, including 12/58 = 20.7% Miao (China), 10/70 = 14.3% Vietnam, 18/165 = 10.9% Han (China & Taiwan), 4/49 = 8.2% Tujia (China) (Karafet 2010). O-002611 also has been found in a singleton from the Philippines (1/48 = 2.1%), but it has not been detected in samples from Malaysia (0/32), Taiwanese Aboriginals (0/48), She from China (0/51), Yao from China (0/60), Oceania (0/182), eastern Indonesia (0/957), or western Indonesia (0/960) (Karafet 2010).Haplogroup O3a1c‐002611 is prevalent in different ethnic groups in China and Southeast Asia, including Vietnam (14.29%), Sichuan of southwestern China (Han, 14.60%; Tibetan in Xinlong County, 15.22%),[4] Jilin of northeastern China (Korean, 9.36%), Inner Mongolia(Mongolian, 6.58%), and Gansu of northwestern China(Baima, 7.35%; Han, 11.30%).


    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...9c57824e8d.jpg
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...e93d38789d.jpg
    mostly M121, M7, M113, O3a5a = M117 =0.76%
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...9edafc68c7.jpg
    indo O3a2b = M7
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...1ed9534f48.jpg
    Han- japan Vietnam - Java
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...6853230496.jpg
    M7 - O3*
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...17053fd154.jpg
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...9c57824e8d.jpg
    M7 - O3*
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...26f3f641eb.jpg
    Filipino
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...pino_Y-DNA.jpg

    https://s28.postimg.org/pst896jq5/filipino.png
    https://s28.postimg.org/rlw4xi4wt/malay.png
    https://s28.postimg.org/nzqbkuyjh/Thai.png
    https://s28.postimg.org/7ng9v4k7x/vietnamese.png
    http://s27.postimg.org/59j3275pd/mmmm.png

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  2. #22
    @Ngo Huy: if you want to say something. Please prepare it carefully. Not put a wall of text without any summary as well as good explanations. I don't get any point you made because it was a mess. LOL

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  3. #23
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              Ethnicity:   Chinese in a Vietnamese body
    Vietnam China United-States

    he is saying you are chessgenius not historygenius

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  4. #24
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    Please stop this. Yue was ambiguous term that is not useful in archeology and historiography today.

    Vietnamese rulers adopted the term Yue from the 10th century not because they felt any connection to the ancient Yue but because there was a trend in resurrecting pre-Han kingdom names at the fall of the Tang dynasty. Chu, Min, Yue, Shu etc. were popular kingdom names in the 10th century.

    The ruler of Southern Han initially named their kingdom Da Yue (Great Yue - same as Đại Việt) simply because he was based in Guangzhou, the old capital of Nan Yue, not because he thought that he or his people had any connection to ancient Yue. Vietnamese rulers later would use the same name for the same reason. Again, no connection to the ancient Yue.
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  5. #25
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    Indonesia

    Quote Originally Posted by Doraemon View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Please stop this. Yue was ambiguous term that is not useful in archeology and historiography today.

    Vietnamese rulers adopted the term Yue from the 10th century not because they felt any connection to the ancient Yue but because there was a trend in resurrecting pre-Han kingdom names at the fall of the Tang dynasty. Chu, Min, Yue, Shu etc. were popular kingdom names in the 10th century.

    The ruler of Southern Han initially named their kingdom Da Yue (Great Yue - same as Đại Việt) simply because he was based in Guangzhou, the old capital of Nan Yue, not because he thought that he or his people had any connection to ancient Yue. Vietnamese rulers later would use the same name for the same reason. Again, no connection to the ancient Yue.
    @DoraemonLover @maumphawv @SayWhaat @Sanaeha @shazou @SapphireSky @Jajapinay

    Nice!

    Yes, the name "Viet Nam" itself is still ambiguous and quite confusing to many people, as it consists , continuously till after ward Qing Empire.

    But it is also making the 'commoners' think that the "Bai Yue" ALL have gone TOTALLY and disappear just in one night!
    Does it also make sense?
    @DoraemonLover @IJNAtago

    But, Sister @Doraemon have made the very good point.

    Who were the real who were mentioned in Shang era / Oracle Bone Script writing?

    "Mobile" + "Axe" = "Viet"

    The real "Viet" were the warriors in Shang era!

    But, just like "Han", the "Viet" also long gone memory, chased, invaded and gradually move further south and south ...
    Some may found their new homeland in Indo Chine, established some kingdoms and states there...
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  6. #26
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              Ethnicity:   Kinh
    Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam

    Quote Quote
    Người Kinh từ H Nội, Việt Nam (He v cộng sự, 2012.)
    9/76 = 11,8% C2-M217
    1/76 = 1,3% K-P131 (xN-M231, O-P191, Q1-P36, R-M207)
    2/76 = 2,6% N-M231
    5/76 = 6,6% O1a1-P203 (xM101)
    9/76 = 11,8% O2a1-M95 (xM88)
    23/76 = 30,3% O2a1a-M88
    7/76 = 9,2% O3a-P200 (xM121, M164, P201, JST002611)
    2/76 = 2,6% O3a2-P201 (xM7, M134)
    8/76 = 10,5% O3a2b-M7
    7/76 = 9,2% O3a2c1-M134
    2/76 = 2,6% O3a1c-JST002611
    1/76 = 1,3% R1a1a-M17

    Việt Nam (Karafet et al., 2010)
    3/70 = 4,3% C2-M217
    2/70 = 2,9% D1a1-M15
    1/70 = 1,4% J-M304 (xJ1-M267, J2-M172)
    1/70 = 1,4% J2-M172 (xJ2b-M12)
    2/70 = 2,9% N-M231 [LLY22g +]
    2/70 = 2,9% O3a-P197 (xP201, JST002611)
    10/70 = 14,3% O3a1c-JST002611
    1/70 = 1,4% O3a2-P201 (xM7, M134)
    4/70 = 5,7% O3a2b-M7
    11/70 = 15,7% O3a2c1-M134
    4/70 = 5,7% O1a1-P203
    1/70 = 1,4% O2-P31 (xO2a1-M95, O2b-SRY465)
    1/70 = 1,4% O2b-SRY465 (x47z)
    2/70 = 2,9% O2b1a-47z
    5/70 = 7,1% O2a1-M95 (xM111)
    14/70 = 20,0% O2a1a-M111
    5/70 = 7,1% Q1-P36 (xM346)
    1/70 = 1,4% R1a1a-M17
    It seems that the samples have different results.

    @chessgenus

    So how many genetic of ancient of Viet and Ancient of Ancient Viet?

    Muong is isolated they have not O2b, R1, J.... those hg is not oldest Hg of Viet, It is hg of japanese traders and westerners in Nguyen Dynasty and It is always minority, like as philippin, indonesian... They always have minority because their countries are also have exchanges with the West and Japan. Course of, it still has some hg of ancient Viet from different groups as F, Q, N, C3 but its not ancient of Viet even one of they maybe a mixture of Han migrated to VietNam.

    from here:
    3/70 = 4,3% C2-M217
    2/70 = 2,9% D1a1-M15
    1/70 = 1,4% J-M304 (xJ1-M267, J2-M172)
    1/70 = 1,4% J2-M172 (xJ2b-M12)
    2/70 = 2,9% N-M231 [LLY22g +]
    2/70 = 2,9% O3a-P197 (xP201, JST002611)
    10/70 = 14,3% O3a1c-JST002611
    1/70 = 1,4% O3a2-P201 (xM7, M134)
    4/70 = 5,7% O3a2b-M7
    11/70 = 15,7% O3a2c1-M134
    4/70 = 5,7% O1a1-P203
    1/70 = 1,4% O2-P31 (xO2a1-M95, O2b-SRY465)
    1/70 = 1,4% O2b-SRY465 (x47z)
    2/70 = 2,9% O2b1a-47z
    5/70 = 7,1% O2a1-M95 (xM111)
    14/70 = 20,0% O2a1a-M111
    5/70 = 7,1% Q1-P36 (xM346)
    1/70 = 1,4% R1a1a-M17

    we skip some HG include: D1, J, N, Q1, R1 = 2.9% D1a1 + 1,4% J + 1,4% J2 + 2,9% N + 1,4% O2b + 2,9% O2b1a + 7,1% Q1-P36 + 1,4% R1a1a-M17 = 21,4%

    100 - 21,4 = 78,6%.

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  7. #27
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    Continue.

    Ancient of Ancient Viet is group speak Ancient Autro-Asiatic, different with groups from HungVuong.

    78,6%. - 4,3% C2 M217 - 5,7% O1a1(Austronesian) = 68,6% - (2,9 + 14,3 + 1,4 + 5,7 + 15,7) O3 = 28,6% groups Ancient Viet speak Austro-Asiatic or Tai-kdai, but The results are different and O2 is many branchs (M111, M95, M88).

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    Last edited by Ngo Huy; 05-19-2017 at 08:24 PM.
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  8. #28
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              Ethnicity:   FULRO flag
    Vietnam

    if yue = viet
    then mac (Dede' dynasty) = Mac Donald + MacIntosh + MacDonnell Douglas + Mac cosmetic
    I did not know we (The Mac) were so rich and we own dozens of major companies.
    @222 @Ngo Huy;

    Cham of the kingdom of Champa have been at war with ancient Vietnam for centuries. The Cham army burned Vietnam's capital and raped the inhabitants several times (present-day Hanoi, in the north); Similarly, the Vietnamese armies destroyed the Cham towns and brought women and children back as slaves.
    The Cham play good music. A Vietnamese king (Maybe 15th century L dynasty) banned his people from taking for wife a slave Cham. Of course, they do it anyway. In the 18th century the Vietnamese conquered Champa definitively. Some Cham have fled and settled in Sanya, Hainan Island, China (and became the Usul); Some fled in mountains, some where asimilated by Vietnamese.

    I wonder if the Viet who in the far past were close to the Muong now share some DNA with Sanya Usul ?

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  9. #29
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              Ethnicity:   Yue
    Russia

    I'm beginning to think Dede is a southern Cham anti-Chinese French sympathizer.
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  10. #30
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              Ethnicity:   Chinese in a Vietnamese body
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dede View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    then mac (Dede' dynasty) = Mac Donald + MacIntosh + MacDonnell Douglas + Mac cosmetic
    I did not know we (The Mac) were so rich and we own dozens of major companies.

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  11. #31
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              Ethnicity:   Kinh
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    Of course Yue = Viet about means of word.

    Quote Quote
    Cham of the kingdom of Champa have been at war with ancient Vietnam for centuries. The Cham army burned Vietnam's capital and raped the inhabitants several times (present-day Hanoi, in the north); Similarly, the Vietnamese armies destroyed the Cham towns and brought women and children back as slaves.
    The fact there is not completely.


    Quote Quote
    I wonder if the Viet who in the far past were close to the Muong now share some DNA with Sanya Usul ?
    Of course they are not close. though Champa is also mixtural but genetic of them different with Kinh and Muong, they and their language belong Austronesian, while Kinh and Muong belong Austro-Asiatic.

    Relationship between Kinh and Muong is complex. Kinh is not relate to Muong, so We use terminology "Viet Cổ". it can confuse ethnicity and nationality.

    Kinh was affected by china cultural, while Muong isolated with their own cultural.

    Kinh and Muong are branchs of ancient Viet or indigenous of north Yue.

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    Last edited by Ngo Huy; 05-21-2017 at 12:44 AM.
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  12. #32
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    I do not anderstand what you find anti-Chinese and pro-French in what I have written.

    I beleve that Zhao Thuo ( aka Trieu Da), the king and founder of the Nan Yue in Canton, nether put a foot in Tonkin.

    PrinceValiant, the Tay Son and Nguyen Anh (aka Gia Lon) no nothing about Vietnam history in the years "zero"

    At the end of the 19th century, a Chinese merchant living in Vietnam had bought my great-grandmother, a woman from Nhe An province with whom he had several daughters. My grandfather was the head of a village in Tonkin, his first three wives were dead and he already had a dozen children. My grandfather bought one of the poor half Chinese girls. My father was his son and therefore much younger than his half-brothers. At that time, the French had decided to educate the Vietnamese elite. My father was sent to a French boarding school. He took advantage of a free French education and his little brother who had even been sent to another province. The countryside in Tonkin was not rulled directly by the French, but by a vice-king in Hanoi under the authority of the Emperor of Annam in Hu. The French administered only Hanoi and some large cities.

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